Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
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gezza
TheDarkAvenger
6 posters
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Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
One of my old friends who did an English lit degree finished his course and told me that "Fantasy lit is...well, the fantasy is that that stuff is lit." I think we really do have a stigma problem. I always thought that ALL LIT was an attempt at creating an escape.
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
I found a quote that helped me during the more disappointing moments in life.
Benjamin Franklin (probably not that big a deal to the non-u.s. citizens, but I assure you it's origins are quite eastern): "blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."
Hope it might help.
Benjamin Franklin (probably not that big a deal to the non-u.s. citizens, but I assure you it's origins are quite eastern): "blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."
Hope it might help.
Bluegray- warming up
- Posts : 31
Join date : 2008-12-24
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
Well the fact that they're toting themselves as "best uni" for something so subjective as creative writing would have been my first flag. "Best" as a classifier is already subjective, and coming to that conclusion usually requires basing it off of some specifically chosen results/statistics which are generally internally generated. Basically, it's a blanket statement which everyone finds some way to cast onto themselves as part of a good business model. Personally, I take most singular claims of perfection, or near-perfection with a huge grain of salt until I have seen the proof with my own eyes.
Bluegray- warming up
- Posts : 31
Join date : 2008-12-24
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
Thank you all for your inspiring and humourous replies. (Val, seriously, LOL.)
I'm about to embark on my script, so we'll see how it goes. I'm just so sick of being at the 'best uni' for creative writing and yet never doing anything... what's the word... Creative.
Kinda glad I didn't try to write a Star Wars-esque space opera... wonder what she'd have made of that...
In reply to the statement made about art, I think you're right. Some famous author dude once said that you had to defamiliarise the familiar - which a good realist writer can do, whereas in fantasy everything feels a little spoon-fed.
I'm about to embark on my script, so we'll see how it goes. I'm just so sick of being at the 'best uni' for creative writing and yet never doing anything... what's the word... Creative.
Kinda glad I didn't try to write a Star Wars-esque space opera... wonder what she'd have made of that...
In reply to the statement made about art, I think you're right. Some famous author dude once said that you had to defamiliarise the familiar - which a good realist writer can do, whereas in fantasy everything feels a little spoon-fed.
TheDarkAvenger- Hot Dog
- Posts : 148
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 33
Location : Norwich, England
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
I'd be happy to repeat Gezza's French phrase in Italian, Hongul (Korean), English and even Newjerseyese, but that would be redundant!
Your complaint flashed me back to my college days: I was a poli sci major, a patriotic pro-military service guy with conservative tendancies in a very liberal school where America is always wrong, soldiers are for spitting on, and (I suspect) some of the profs were card-carrying commies. (Bet they were disappointed when the Wall came down!) At least one course grade was based more on my refusal to be indoctrinated rather than on my understanding of the course material...
What I came away from it with was this: always listen, do the work required, and always remember where your heart lies. Some of what you learn (even if it's the opposite of what's being taught) can be learned at no other time and place.
In the end, many of your chauvinistic and pretentious "peers"...well, who cares what they think, or what they'll do with their educations? You have to follow the "Path of Esme", and these people will only touch your life for an amazingly brief time.
In another thread, I mentioned a famous dead artist and the difference between his work and the crayon drawings of a 5 year old: So riddle me this- Who is your intended audience? (And by the way, none of these poseurs in your class are future famous dead artists, nor are you a crayon-wielding child, but I think you understand my point...)
Your complaint flashed me back to my college days: I was a poli sci major, a patriotic pro-military service guy with conservative tendancies in a very liberal school where America is always wrong, soldiers are for spitting on, and (I suspect) some of the profs were card-carrying commies. (Bet they were disappointed when the Wall came down!) At least one course grade was based more on my refusal to be indoctrinated rather than on my understanding of the course material...
What I came away from it with was this: always listen, do the work required, and always remember where your heart lies. Some of what you learn (even if it's the opposite of what's being taught) can be learned at no other time and place.
In the end, many of your chauvinistic and pretentious "peers"...well, who cares what they think, or what they'll do with their educations? You have to follow the "Path of Esme", and these people will only touch your life for an amazingly brief time.
In another thread, I mentioned a famous dead artist and the difference between his work and the crayon drawings of a 5 year old: So riddle me this- Who is your intended audience? (And by the way, none of these poseurs in your class are future famous dead artists, nor are you a crayon-wielding child, but I think you understand my point...)
wargood- Chatter Box
- Posts : 93
Join date : 2008-12-04
Age : 55
Location : Toms River, NJ
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
Ay caramba. I've recently read several disenchanted posts on the reddit.com writing subforum in regard to what, if any, good people got out of creative writing courses, writing workshops and the like. Most of them complained of exactly what you're complaining of: narrow-minded teaching and unimaginitive writing. Every teacher believes their way is better; some believe it's the only way. Every student wants to do their best; some throw themselves into the current mainstream just to be accepted.
True genius always stands out. I say you should bitch slap your teacher (er, perhaps figuratively so) for trying to take the fantasy out of your screen writing. Would she take Moria, the Shire, Mordor out of the Lord of the Rings? No! Just because she sucks at fantasy and can't grade it worth something wedged between her teeth is no reason not to let YOU write it in the first place. Classes should ultimately be about the exercise of the student's mind, not the grading of the teacher's pen.
Ooh. I like that last sentence.
Alternately, you could write a realism piece full of gore about how a shunned and minimalized fantasy writer's characters were so realistic that they came to life and slaughtered all the other idiots in the classroom and made the teacher wet herself before slicing off her pen-wielding fingers. Though here in the US, that would get you a visit from the homeland security people. So maybe not. But a little satire never hurt anyone...literally speaking.
Seriously. Write what you want to practice writing, and leave the bourgeoisie to their own little nonsensical scribblings. You know they wouldn't enjoy your writing, probably wouldn't grasp its genius or depth. Why bother comparing your success/percentage of attention in class to theirs, when you don't want to be like them?
True genius always stands out. I say you should bitch slap your teacher (er, perhaps figuratively so) for trying to take the fantasy out of your screen writing. Would she take Moria, the Shire, Mordor out of the Lord of the Rings? No! Just because she sucks at fantasy and can't grade it worth something wedged between her teeth is no reason not to let YOU write it in the first place. Classes should ultimately be about the exercise of the student's mind, not the grading of the teacher's pen.
Ooh. I like that last sentence.
Alternately, you could write a realism piece full of gore about how a shunned and minimalized fantasy writer's characters were so realistic that they came to life and slaughtered all the other idiots in the classroom and made the teacher wet herself before slicing off her pen-wielding fingers. Though here in the US, that would get you a visit from the homeland security people. So maybe not. But a little satire never hurt anyone...literally speaking.
Seriously. Write what you want to practice writing, and leave the bourgeoisie to their own little nonsensical scribblings. You know they wouldn't enjoy your writing, probably wouldn't grasp its genius or depth. Why bother comparing your success/percentage of attention in class to theirs, when you don't want to be like them?
Valkyrie- Chatter Box
- Posts : 73
Join date : 2009-12-01
Location : at the keyboard
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
I dropped out of the creative writing concentration at my school for some of the same reasons. I felt like every story revolved around some teenage trauma magnified to cliched degrees, and what's worse was putting up with the pricks that perpetuated the habits.
However, I will confess that there is an outlet where I my opinion of fantasy has much to ask for. In academia, I hardly take the realist amateur writer seriously and direct most of my admiration for those who try and push the envelope in the much neglected fantastical genres. Unfortunately, once you leave academia, all of those realists have matured and actually tie up their sloppy habits whereas the reverse seems to be true to the fantasy writers.
My explanation for this, if you can accept it, is this: what draws a realist to something that closely mimics the reality so many people try to escape, is a passion for the art that comes before the theme. These are the people who grow sick trying to find the perfect word, and who are virtually torn by equal parts love and hate for their chosen profession. On the other hand, I feel theme sits higher in priority than the art for most of the mainstream fantasy media.
This is in no means a definitive rule/judgment on all authors of any category/walks-of-life, for every rule has its exception, and every exception, its rule. As an example of this from personal experience, I once met a freshman English major whose goal was to be a fantasy writer, and when pressed on the issue of where his interests laid, his response was, "in things with swords and arrows." I could write a book on the implications of the statement, and the implications of the implications but I'm going to leave this post with some sanity.
Point is, I think a perceived lack of artistic direction is the main cause behind the stigma fantasy writers get.
However, I will confess that there is an outlet where I my opinion of fantasy has much to ask for. In academia, I hardly take the realist amateur writer seriously and direct most of my admiration for those who try and push the envelope in the much neglected fantastical genres. Unfortunately, once you leave academia, all of those realists have matured and actually tie up their sloppy habits whereas the reverse seems to be true to the fantasy writers.
My explanation for this, if you can accept it, is this: what draws a realist to something that closely mimics the reality so many people try to escape, is a passion for the art that comes before the theme. These are the people who grow sick trying to find the perfect word, and who are virtually torn by equal parts love and hate for their chosen profession. On the other hand, I feel theme sits higher in priority than the art for most of the mainstream fantasy media.
This is in no means a definitive rule/judgment on all authors of any category/walks-of-life, for every rule has its exception, and every exception, its rule. As an example of this from personal experience, I once met a freshman English major whose goal was to be a fantasy writer, and when pressed on the issue of where his interests laid, his response was, "in things with swords and arrows." I could write a book on the implications of the statement, and the implications of the implications but I'm going to leave this post with some sanity.
Point is, I think a perceived lack of artistic direction is the main cause behind the stigma fantasy writers get.
Bluegray- warming up
- Posts : 31
Join date : 2008-12-24
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
You are very accurate with your French, G
I was willing to learn from what they had to offer. It was a shame that all they had to offer was rape, murder and gore, over-pretentiousness and over-writing.
I think what I learned is not to be like them at all.
I was willing to learn from what they had to offer. It was a shame that all they had to offer was rape, murder and gore, over-pretentiousness and over-writing.
I think what I learned is not to be like them at all.
TheDarkAvenger- Hot Dog
- Posts : 148
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 33
Location : Norwich, England
Re: Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
The stigma exists but in a weird way. It has to do with preconceptions with what is "great writing". Most of the students in your classes are, by coincidence, non-specfic writers and they believe that 'realism' is the badge they need to wear to be 'great'. Ironically, some of the greatest 'realism' writers have intertwined fantasy etc into their work for decades, if not centuries.
Basically, you share your classes with two types of students - those who are chauvinistic, and those who are pretentious.
It is my genuine belief that a great writer is someone who starts with a genre - usually of preference - and then grows and learns from other styles, genres etc - and then develops their own unique style, contributing to the craft generally. I have found over recent years that when i write a story, I have learned something from other genres and styles - and knitted it into my work - but as a process of augmentation.
Pardon the French, but **** them.
Gerry
Basically, you share your classes with two types of students - those who are chauvinistic, and those who are pretentious.
It is my genuine belief that a great writer is someone who starts with a genre - usually of preference - and then grows and learns from other styles, genres etc - and then develops their own unique style, contributing to the craft generally. I have found over recent years that when i write a story, I have learned something from other genres and styles - and knitted it into my work - but as a process of augmentation.
Pardon the French, but **** them.
Gerry
Fantasy Writing - Is There A Stigma?
As you all probably know, I'm in the middle of a very prestigious creative writing degree at UEA. I have, however, found that being a fantasy writer makes me somewhat of a leper in my creative writing classes.
Last semester I did a Prose class. Everyone there but me was a realist writer, intent on shock value and gore (one person wrote a story about a girl self harming and eventually cutting off her own hand with a razor blade. You get the gist). Despite this, I got a good grade for my final pieces, and yet no credibility within the class.
This semester I'm doing a screenwriting class. The tutor said fantasy was a perfectly acceptable genre to use, but since then she had been trying to rewrite my script so it isn't in a fantasy setting at all.
a) I'd have thought, in an age overpopulated with fantasy novels, fantasy wouldn't be such a massive 'problem' anymore.
b) This is meant to be the best course in the UK, probably even Europe. So why isn't there a fantasy writing module?
c) Is there still a stigma with fantasy writing?
Your thoughts, please.
Last semester I did a Prose class. Everyone there but me was a realist writer, intent on shock value and gore (one person wrote a story about a girl self harming and eventually cutting off her own hand with a razor blade. You get the gist). Despite this, I got a good grade for my final pieces, and yet no credibility within the class.
This semester I'm doing a screenwriting class. The tutor said fantasy was a perfectly acceptable genre to use, but since then she had been trying to rewrite my script so it isn't in a fantasy setting at all.
a) I'd have thought, in an age overpopulated with fantasy novels, fantasy wouldn't be such a massive 'problem' anymore.
b) This is meant to be the best course in the UK, probably even Europe. So why isn't there a fantasy writing module?
c) Is there still a stigma with fantasy writing?
Your thoughts, please.
TheDarkAvenger- Hot Dog
- Posts : 148
Join date : 2009-01-29
Age : 33
Location : Norwich, England
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